Light Side or Dark Side? Is there common ground?

Is it really a matter of good vs. evil? Why or why not? If not what do you think it is a matter of and why?
Do you think a middle ground between the two is possible or even preferable?

This thread has alot of discussion on the force if you care to join in there.

I apologies, I didn't know there was already a discussion going on about this topic. You can delete this one if you want :)

Its okay, it was on page 3 I think... I dug it up for you because its an interesting thread.

Darth Terron wrote:Example: (I saw some talk of this in the guild history) erasing one's mind with the force, A clean slate if you will. Is this right even if the person was considered to be evil? I'm speaking of Revan of course :)

Considering that the Force can allow one to see the possible futures that stem from a particular action or persons existence then knowing that terrible things could occur as the result of a certain action or inaction then I would suggest it can be ethical in the greater scheme of things to do such an act as erasing someones mind - it is certainly not as unethical as outrightly killing the person when this other lifesaving option was available.

Also consider the case of some criminals in our society - not all admittedly but some at least - facing the death penalty or lesser consequences they feel genuine remorse for the actions led them to their current situation, do you think that if given the opportunity to erase the memories of those past actions and start fresh (and not being dead) that they would be grateful and perhaps volunteer to be wiped clean?

The Force is "split up" between Light and Dark because of moral use of the Force and the emotions behind those uses.
Force lightning, choke, drain are abilities that are used when drawing on a "negative" emotion like anger, fear, desperation, etc. The Jedi teach that using these types of powers are unacceptable because the emotions they're based on have you lose touch with your self-control and dwell on the power of those emotions. Eventually, these emotions overwhelm you because they grant you "power" and you want to hold on to these emotions. Sadly, these ideas of power are thought to be applied for the greater good. Most Sith are looking for power just to be powerful, while others become Sith because their view of the "good vs. evil" thing are confused. For example, Jacan Solo and Anakin Skywalker were thinking that taking this power would help them fix the galaxy and/or save the ones they loved. In turn, they actually devastated the ones they loved most and it cost the galaxy a great deal.

This is why the Jedi fight so hard to keep base emotions out of Force use, because they believe that "dark side" Force powers will lead to nothing but evil use of the Force. They want to be servants of the Force and therefore of the good that it has to offer.

This is where, I believe, we mediate. The powers exist, but draw on emotion. But I tend to think of our Force use like acting (yes, I'm a theater nerd, get over it, lol). When you are on stage or in an acting class the director/teacher generally tells you to "remember a time when you were sad/angry/happy/empty/etc" and draw on that for this situation. If you do it correctly you can have the audience believe that you are experiencing that emotion, but you're really not, you're just portraying the expressions of that emotion without feeling it (usually). Why couldn't the same be applied to the Force? Once you apply the memory of the emotion behind the power, instead of drawing on the emotion itself, then you should be able to have the power without any danger of a "dark" emotion as its base.

Yes, it's a dangerous thought to go through the emotions and hit the "dark" of yourself, but what great Jedi has not gone through the Trials and not felt the "dark" within? And if we are here to help each other achieve a strength in the Force that serves the Republic and the greater good of the people then we wouldn't let one of us "cross over to the darK" during their training with OUF.

If you want an example of a Jedi that did this, think of Revan. He used several "darK" abilities and he became the savior of the Republic. Plo Koon developed a form of Force Lightning that he called Force Judgment. It wasn't a white lightning, but was more of an orange tint. He told the Jedi Council (when they heard of it and brought him up on using a dark ability) about the use of the power he said that there was no emotion behind it, it was just straight Force ability and "judgment" from his natural Kel Dor instincts. They let him continue to use it, even though they held reservations on it.

All-in-all, using the Force is split between basking in the power of your emotions (the Dark side) and separating yourself from your emotions (the Light side). We stand in the middle (or I see it that way) of the argument and just bring forth the memory of an emotion to utilize a power without the danger of falling into the "power of an emotion" trap.

Well, after all that (if you were brave and bored enough to read all of it) I think I've stated my opinion of our "dark" and "light" approach to the Force.

Now, on a personal level, I agree with Bahn but, I disagree (only to a small extent cuz he put it so sweetly that I almost wanted to believe it was my view of the Force) with the idea that removing yourself from your emotions and calling on them as a MEMORY is the idea of keeping yourself in check.

I feel that being born with emotions, we must learn to UNDERSTAND them, not forget them. i.e. it's ok to love as long as you know WHY you'd fight for it. If love leads to anger and aggression, then know what it is that drives you that far! Sometimes, it's a good idea to hold-off on those emotions and store them for later use. Example, fighting a Sith who is almost too powerful for you to handle, it may be a good idea to feel that anger you felt when they killed your family. Once you've finished them off and brought justice help them and help yourself by finding your center and putting that feeling to rest.

Some confuse the ideas that the Jedi used. The Jedi had a twisted way of cutting off the flow of emotion in an attempt to live without it. They believe that if you felt emotion you were showing no self-control. This is true but, to feel noting is to be the Force. To be the Force, you must be one with it; i.e. DEAD.

As natural being of the universe we are born with emotion and must learn how to allow the emotions to HELP us rather than CONTROL us. Kill a thousand to save one equals a loss. Emotion or none. Kill one to save a thousand equals a win. Emotion or none. Emotions should not be cut-off or ignored but used to fuel your drive to complete the cycle of life.

Obviously, some may agree, some may disagree but all in all- there is only one thing we need to know and that is how our emotions can help or ruin us. Feel your emotion but don't let it control you.

((I may have left something out or not been clear on something so, questions, comments or concerns are welcome!))

Gerard Halcyon wrote:Now, on a personal level, I agree with Bahn but, I disagree (only to a small extent cuz he put it so sweetly that I almost wanted to believe it was my view of the Force) with the idea that removing yourself from your emotions and calling on them as a MEMORY is the idea of keeping yourself in check.

When you say 'sweetly', do you mean "man that was sweet" or "aww, how sweet"?
lol

Now, I agree with you, Gerard, in terms of understanding an emotion. That's kind of what I mean when I say "drawing on the memory of the emotion to bring forth the power from said emotion". It's just that, as a clan of individuals that fight in between the teachings of the Jedi and the Sith, we have to find a way to utilize both ideals.

I just see it as if you draw on an emotion, you have opened up a 'dependence' on that emotion for that power. Therefore, you leave yourself open to drawing on more of your basic emotions for power, therefore, losing control of yourself. Certainly, you could utilize an emotion for strength and an ability's access, but you risk a great threat of becoming obsessed with that power.

And as a naturally emotional person myself, I definitely wouldn't suggest that you cut off your emotions. More like, having them but not having them rule you, as you stated. Like I said, remembering how you felt when certain power was achieved is safer than dwelling on the emotion that achieved it.

That's where the Jedi Order steps in and say "Love is a good emotion, but it inspires attachment therefore it is a selfish act. If you lose such an attachment jealousy, greed and anger will form and have you concerned with yourself and the power you may gain from those emotions." While this may be true, one could still train themselves to control their emotions as they would 'let go' of their emotions (as the Jedi Order would).
Honestly, I just think "Dark" and "Light" are going to always be things in debate, even amongst the Jedi Order. What they are and how they're viewed are never going to be a complete certainty, so... I guess that's just how I view it. hah

When you say 'sweetly', do you mean "man that was sweet" or "aww, how sweet"?
lol

A little bit of both! XD

I see what you mean now. I, myself, am also quite emotional but I bask in the emotions cuz they remind me I'm still alive. I could easily just resort to some pills and become a zombie but that would also leave me weak and powerless to defend myself on certain views and opinions that make me an individual. Calling on the memory of an emotion (in retrospect) is pretty much the same thing I was getting at. I meant only that as long as the emotion is a positive one then only strength and determination can result. But, I do not feel the need to restrain myself if the one I love is taken from me. You cannot force another to love you but, if they are gone against their will, I will fight, kill, main, torture, burn, slice, behead and most certainly DESTROY anything and EVERYTHING between us until I know she is safe. ((I would harm no innocents but, I'd sure as hell burn the hair off of a Bounty Hunter (who shipped her across the galaxy) to get an answer...))

Selfish? Maybe. But, I'll be damned if someone is going to take my happiness and safe home away from me!

Sorry, I'm getting off topic. My main point is, as long as the emotion is a good one and used in a fair and just manner, then it is completely legit to call on it. The only difference really is if you are doing what you do for a complete and utter selfish reason, that would be classified as "Dark"... Most Def... But, yes, it will always be open for debate. It all really depends on what side of the fence you are on.